TOS 5.1.37 (X86) is Released for Update

[topo01]

{L_BUTTON_AT}crisisacting

Not agreed!

Thanks for your answer but I have no idea what exactly you are trying to convey.
I do agree and understand that OSes are growing in size.

My first complaint:
If other manufacturers have run into same issues before then it is even worse that we were not warned! The devs should know and watch the size of the newest OS version and send warnings in advance - not after users start noticing and complaining. 5.1 has been out for months.

Secondly:
I feel very much left alone with the issue. All I read is like "See how you get out of this on your own". Reading through various threads on this forum I can't find THE ultimate official detailed guide from TM to mitigate the partition size issue. That would really help me and perhaps others who are no computer experts. Thought that's a valid request...

[Gremlin]

{L_BUTTON_AT}topo01

I think you may be mis-construing the situation. Updates to 5.1 did work ok on 2GB system partition. Mine was fine on 5.1.24 and 5.1.33. It was the move to 5.1.34 that seemed to mess up on my system. But then, mine is basically a vanilla system with very little else going on except ftp for my security system and backups storage for my PCs. Other users have happily thrown everything (including the kitchen sink, probably, by now) at it without much thought for what is going on below the surface. Noone can plan for every eventuallity. Like they say "**it happens and life sucks!"

There were warnings given (when the size of the issue became apparent) which some people appear to have ignored because "it was too difficult to back up and restore"or just did not read/comprehend. Granted, backup/restore is not an envious task; but everyone has their data backed up and their configuration saved don't they? Too Obvious? OK, I'm as guilty as the next person. However, My system is not that important in the overall scheme.

At the end of the day, there IS a clear and definite means of addressing the issue, in the near term, which has been given by TM. If you don't like it, sorry.

Likewise, I experimented and found a viable solution for me. as I have already posted.

[crisisacting]

…
If other manufacturers have run into same issues before then it is even worse that we were not warned! The devs should know and watch the size of the newest OS version and send warnings in advance - not after users start noticing and complaining. 5.1 has been out for months.

The last build without the warning is the 5.1 beta, after that every 5.1.× build has the partition warning (though it may have been added in afterwards on every build other than the one in this very thread, based on the thread dates).

The warning thread is one you've replied to @ viewtopic.php?f=76&t=4655#p26822

Like other issues that Terra-Master has experienced & mostly later resolved, due to the company's overall small size in comparison to their direct competition, it's likely that their Quality Assurance team and their processes are only on a select amount of devices that hasn't been a representation of the real-time use cases of their customers, so they don't seem to be catching every issue until it's made available to end-users via manual update. Up until this thread's build and 5.1.34 just before it, the partition size seems to have been an issue that did not present for most users, however through feedback and likely many remote assistance sessions, it became evident to the point that they had to acknowledge it.

Could they have been more transparent, of course, but unless the OS is completely open source where users can contribute, most companies with closed source keep things very close to the chest unless forced to reveal something of consequence.

Many have wanted to be part of the 'closed' beta process because they are using these devices in environments that require lead testing before any changes are made, so having advanced access saves time and money for all involved, however, unless Terra-Master is selectively doing this with some customers directly, there hasn't been an opportunity to get ahead of these possible issues until it's made available to end-users & issues are discovered.

… Reading through various threads on this forum I can't find THE ultimate official detailed guide from TM to mitigate the partition size issue. That would really help me and perhaps others who are no computer experts. Thought that's a valid request...

With the partitioning scheme being contiguous as others have denoted within this overall community forum, resizing the system partition and adjacent partitions will likely lead to catastrophic data loss and as such there's no mitigation but to backup data & configuration, secure erase/format if reusing drives, then starting from scratch on a newer 5.1.× build to get the newer partitioning for new and future builds.

You are not being forced to move to the newer builds, nor are Terra-Master pushing it via the update tool in TOS as they only seem to recommend it directly to users on this forum in certain situations or using particular applications.

If you are just using your TNAS only within your home/closed environment and don't need it to have internet access, then set it to Security Isolation Mode to prevent the majority of possible external attack vectors.

Based on your signature, if you regularly use Quick Sync real-time hardware video encoding on Plex, you shouldn't have moved onto 5.1.× builds with its newer Linux kernel since ×20 series devices lose that feature by upgrading (something that's been stated in every 5.1.× build including the beta which was outright not even offered for those affected devices).

[TMroy]

Thank you all for your criticism and push! It is undeniable that our work does have something that needs to be improved, and we will continue to improve under everyone's supervision.

Regarding the system partition issue, we have a statement that clearly states the cause of the issue and the solution. You might not agree that is a solution, whether you accept it or not, we don't have the capability to provide a solution as you'd expect for the partitions that were created years ago. This is not evading responsibility, there is really just no way.
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=4655&p=26822#p26822

[jgea]

@TMRoy

AFAIK the sysmte is installed in a USB drive that is inside the NAS, but since the drive is small you get part of the ocal drives in the system fo rthe system partition.

Could a solution be to replace that sub drive for a bigger one be a solution and avoid us the hustle of having to backup all the RAID and regenerate it completely?

Having to do that makes us to be out of order for nearly two or three days, it's something that as a business we cannot accept sadly.

I say this as a constructive idea, but please try to find a solution that does nto involve to regenerate the full RAID completely because it seems to be a recurrent problem with TOS and it's worrying me a lot TBH.

[crisisacting]

AFAIK the system is installed in a USB drive that is inside the NAS, but since the drive is small you get part of the local drives in the system for the system partition.

That's incorrect.

The internal USB drive is just used for initial boot (that image is under 500 MB on size in most TNAS models) which provides the web interface to install TOS onto the first available validated drive, to which the partitioning scheme gets applied; if you freshly initialize a TNAS with TOS 5.1.×, it will set it up with the larger system partition.

If an at minimum 3-2-1 backup solution is in place, there should already be fairly recent backups if not up-to-date ones, so migration to a new setup should just be the time of data transfer after restoration of configuration.

If that's not in place, then this is an opportunity to get another NAS, Terra-Master or another vendor, and set it up as the new primary (if it's an upgrade) or as a temporary/secondary (if it's a less robust/expensive unit) option during this process.

[jgea]

THanks for the clarification on the USB, however it could be a good idea to make that USB Drive the system drive if we replace it with a bigger drive.

On the other hand, it's not only the transfer data time, it's also the RAID generaation and preparation time, which can get a ton of time, both things together are very problematic.

There also another thing to take into account, all the configuration of differnt services that are in the NAS, for example some databases and other apps, not a bit deal by itself, but it adds up to the down time.

Could good to get an intermediate solution IF possible, and changing the interal USB drive may not be a solution for everyone, but can be a good solution for some of us

[Gremlin]

[at=jgea post_id=27896 time=1687212087 user_id=6265][/at]

I don't think that is going to happen around here. You are talking Trunas, Mediavault and the like I think.One of the reasons i'm here is that TNAS is none of those.

[jgea]

Why not? We are just talking about the drive where the OS could be installed, I don’t see any technical reason of why can’t TOS be installed in a USB drive, it’s just something that can be enabled by Terramaster, but I can’t think about any reason at all to not allow for that.

[crisisacting]

Why not? We are just talking about the drive where the OS could be installed, I don’t see any technical reason of why can’t TOS be installed in a USB drive, it’s just something that can be enabled by Terramaster, but I can’t think about any reason at all to not allow for that.

Based on the fact that a number of people have had their internal USB initboot drive outright die from basically little use outside setup, that's one reason not to do it with the default OEM drive. Also, the amount of constant drive write activity that TOS likely has, is the reason it's on a HDD (or SSD for those running full flash with no mechanical).

Other solutions like openmediavault implement a plugin to minimize writes to extend the life of a USB drive if that's the chosen storage for the OS & TrueNAS doesn't even recommend installing to a USB drive any longer as it's known to eventually fail due to the heavy usage.

Unrelated to NAS, but still a storage solution, Unifi's UNVR just last year ran into these kind of internal USB drive initialization solution drive failures (they had already revised their solution on newer batches with integrated eMMC) and have had to extend their warranty coverage on affected units.

Unless a future internal USB is made for high usage or there's a move to eMMC, both of which will currently increase the BoM for every unit if they change future devices over to either of these, this is not very likely to be the solution for Terra-Master, especially with their target market being more towards the budget-minded end-user.

For existing devices, if they were to allow end-users to install TOS onto a USB drive during initial setup (something it does not currently allow), fully expect them to most likely preface this kind of installation as being outside their warranty coverage.